[b]TheMessenger wrote:[/b] [quote][i]Why[/i] do we need to pray for things to happen/not happen, etc, if everything is already set in stone, cut and dry, happening no matter what? It seems to defeat the purpose to pray about certain things like that if everything is already set to happen no matter what (although I do so anyway). I\'m not saying you don\'t need to pray at all, like you should pray for help and comfort and all that, but praying about things that happen makes [i]no sense[/i] at all if we have no choice anyway.[/quote] Picture this: there are multiple futures possible if I drop a pen. 1) it could roll away from me 2) it could roll towards me 3) it could bounce and roll a ) towards me or b ) away from me. 4) it could not move at all Calvinism states that only one of those futures is really possible, because it is foreordained. But what if it was foreordained for me to not drop the pen at all? In the same way, only one future is going to happen if one is foreordained to pray. However, one might not be foreordained to pray at all. Either way, prayer still works and can have an effect, depending on how God desires to respond to that prayer. The prayer would just be foreordained...just as everything else is. There is no logical problem with Calvinism...the problem only arises once you start off with a premise of free will then suddenly switch to predestination (for example...choosing to pray, but only the outcome is predestined).