Genesis 6:4 talks about the songs of god coming down unto the daughters of man and...bearing children *caugh* some people refer to them as fallen angels, and wonder how angels could do this. I think fallen angels would classify as demons. I've also heard that the word used for them is also the same word used for stars earlier in genesis I think. I was just wondering how these nephilim could be sons of god, fallen angels, demons?, stars, and still the giants that are fought against later in genesis (king og, with shoulders too wide to fit on a bed...more than 6 ft. shoulders....pretty huge guy). the greek words kinda change some, but are all still translated as almost the same. -Luke

You had to bring this up didn't you Luke.... Okay... I will entertain... but keep in mind this is strictly from the hip, and just for conversation... everyone should really seek God, and His Word to develop their own belief on this subject... as with any other subject... This is strictly for dialogue purposes. This is not a representation of what I believe, but again I have that option. This is a presentation of a belief that is common in some scholarly circles. We all know the Scripture that says in Genesis 6: [i] 1 When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal ; his days will be a hundred and twenty years." 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown. [/i] Historically speaking, it is accurate to say that the Nephilim were giants. We know that Goliath was a Nephilim, and that they were a race of giants. Now, I think that the true question being asked is, “What is the correlation between the Nephilim, and the sons of God, and the daughters of Men?” So here is my presentation of one side of the dialogue. Again, I am not presenting this as necessary Truth, but it could be. The sons of God refer to Fallen angels. The daughters of men refer to human beings. The thought goes something like this. This will also be extremely brief, and summarized. Satan knew that Christ was coming to man, because man had fallen. In order for Christ to come, He had to come from a pure bloodline. Now, we know that the Holy Spirit conceived Christ in Mary, but Satan had to make sure that there was not a single women on earth for Christ to be carried by. Christ could not be born of a human that had any blood from a mixture of man, and fallen angels (this is Satan’s supposed thought, not anything in the Bible about this). So these fallen angels mixed with humans, and they “tainted” the bloodline of those women, and their offspring. Satan thought that he had everything under control. Then God said, the world is corrupt, there is only one righteous man. His name is Noah. So God killed all of mankind, except for Noah. Noah was of pure blood, and thus He was spared, and Christ could coe from Noah’s bloodline. Now, you ask, “if Goliath was a Nephilim, and he was “after” the flood, how do you explain that? Well…. I do not. The theology says this, however. One of Noah’s daughter-in-laws (I think Shem’s wife, but I am unsure) was of an impure bloodline. Goliath came from her, and thus there was still tainted blood. Eventually, the giants died out, and the impure bloodline was abolished on earth…. I do not hold all of this to be true, but it makes for an interesting read, and pondering. We should always be seeking the Truth, the one true Truth. If you do a google search for the Nephilim, and bloodline at the same time, I am sure you can read all about this belief. I merely presented it for you to research, and study God’s word, and decide for yourself. -Matt

[b]MaddMatt wrote:[/b] [quote]You had to bring this up didn't you Luke.... Okay... I will entertain... but keep in mind this is strictly from the hip, and just for conversation... everyone should really seek God, and His Word to develop their own belief on this subject... as with any other subject... This is strictly for dialogue purposes. This is not a representation of what I believe, but again I have that option. This is a presentation of a belief that is common in some scholarly circles. We all know the Scripture that says in Genesis 6: [i] 1 When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal ; his days will be a hundred and twenty years." 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown. [/i] Historically speaking, it is accurate to say that the Nephilim were giants. We know that Goliath was a Nephilim, and that they were a race of giants. Now, I think that the true question being asked is, “What is the correlation between the Nephilim, and the sons of God, and the daughters of Men?” So here is my presentation of one side of the dialogue. Again, I am not presenting this as necessary Truth, but it could be. The sons of God refer to Fallen angels. The daughters of men refer to human beings. The thought goes something like this. This will also be extremely brief, and summarized. Satan knew that Christ was coming to man, because man had fallen. In order for Christ to come, He had to come from a pure bloodline. Now, we know that the Holy Spirit conceived Christ in Mary, but Satan had to make sure that there was not a single women on earth for Christ to be carried by. Christ could not be born of a human that had any blood from a mixture of man, and fallen angels (this is Satan’s supposed thought, not anything in the Bible about this). So these fallen angels mixed with humans, and they “tainted” the bloodline of those women, and their offspring. Satan thought that he had everything under control. Then God said, the world is corrupt, there is only one righteous man. His name is Noah. So God killed all of mankind, except for Noah. Noah was of pure blood, and thus He was spared, and Christ could coe from Noah’s bloodline. Now, you ask, “if Goliath was a Nephilim, and he was “after” the flood, how do you explain that? Well…. I do not. The theology says this, however. One of Noah’s daughter-in-laws (I think Shem’s wife, but I am unsure) was of an impure bloodline. Goliath came from her, and thus there was still tainted blood. Eventually, the giants died out, and the impure bloodline was abolished on earth…. I do not hold all of this to be true, but it makes for an interesting read, and pondering. We should always be seeking the Truth, the one true Truth. If you do a google search for the Nephilim, and bloodline at the same time, I am sure you can read all about this belief. I merely presented it for you to research, and study God’s word, and decide for yourself. -Matt[/quote] Thanks Matt, this is a subject I'm very interested in, and I've heard most of this view point before, but not all of it. (I'd never heard this was an attempt by Satan to obstruct Jesus's birth for instance). I've understood Goliath and his "mutant" sons to also be Nephilim. While Goliath was a giant, his sons (from what I've read in 2 Samuel) may not have been, but they had other various genetic differences. One had 6 fingers on each hand and 6 toes on each foot for instance. It does seem to me strange that God, who in His new covenant with man no longer held man accountable for the sins of his father, would be limited by demons' breeding. Also, I'm staying out of the free will discussion for a purpose. I believe in it and won't be shaken. I also believe that angels have free will, and Lucifer and his followers freely chose to sin. For that purpose, it makes me wonder if angels being cast out of heaven for following Lucifer was a one time event or an ongoing thing. And also if these fallen angels "going to" the daughters of men could have also been an ongoing thing. Lastly, on a tangent I find it very interesting that David picked up 5 stones to kill Goliath and only needed one shot. After that he went to slay Goliath's 4 sons -- coincidence?

That's it?! 3 Replies?! Wow.. I expected a lot more on this. I thought it was a great question from Luke. Oh well.... ;) -Matt

they actually have something on this on christiansanswers.net but i dont have the web page right now