I dunno, I hear that a lot but mostly I just think Israel tries a lot harder at kind of crappy agreements for the Palestinians. Netanyahu won't even entertain the idea of agreeing to '67 borders, and all the meanwhile they're still occupying Palestinian land and oppressing the Gaza Strip, so I don't completely blame Palestinians for preferring to resist rather than agree to peace settlements that take even more land from them. Not saying that they couldn't try harder at negotiating, just that I understand why they wouldn't want to compromise to people they see as stealing land that's rightfully theirs and blockading their people.

I'm not saying they don't.... but rather if they choose to go about seeking land through violence that shouldn't be reason to side with them. I would agree that they should have more land... but they do have a lot of benefits out there for native americans, it's not simply us ignoring their pleas, we help them... They pay no taxes, but receive services, meaning we pay the taxes for their services (no that's not a complaint just pointing it out), as you said the casino thing has been a successful means in generating revenue for their tribes, there are many scholarships out there for native americans. We went too far, we realize it, we're in the process of making it right as much as possible.... some wrongs of the past can't be made right.... but it shouldn't stop us from trying.... One more thing I'd like to mention on the topic of Gaza and it's humanitarian crisis.... the gaza water park.... perhaps you haven't heard, but hamas (the ruling power in gaza) built this big waterpark for "gaza's small upper class" according to wikipedia.... odd if they have no electricity or water of their own and israel is oppressing them in every imaginable way that they could build a massive waterpark in the middle of the desert... (not sure if the image will work if not search "gaza water park" and you'll see the pictures.... not to say gaza can't have a waterpark... but just they can't both build 2 malls and a waterpark and insist they don't have construction materials necessary to build homes (which has been alleged on here as the reason for the smuggling tunnels), electricity to power their OWN hospitals, or water for their impoverished people.... gaza could CERTAINLY do without a waterpark, as could ANYPLACE ON EARTH that has a waterpark.... sure it's fun but it's not necessary whatsoever... and yet people like Owlright (and many many others in america and the international community) still think gaza is in a humanitarian crisis. no, the kurds in turkey are in a humanitarian crisis, christians in egypt and lebanon are in a crisis.... syrian civilians being killed by their leader on a daily basis for the past few months are in a crisis.... Sudanese men are in a crisis (someone was telling me they saw a documentary about how muslim extremists killed practically every male of a native tribe in Sudan, a few escaped to America).... millions of unemployed americans losing their houses cause they can't pay the mortgage are in a crisis, thus leaving them without solid ground to stand on (literally)... GAZA is not in a crisis...they elect leaders who's whole platform is "Israel is to blame... we'll destroy them", then Hamas turns around and kills anyone they disagree with and just say they were "Israeli collaborators" to justify the murder.... that is the crisis of Gaza, and until they realize that (which they never will if Hamas has it's way) they will continue to willingly be in that state.... [img size=415]http://www.mypraize.com/images/fbfiles/images/gaza_water_park2.jpg[/img]

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4093281,00.html an article about the situation in Sderot. Thought this is relevant if we're talking about the suffering of people as a result of the actions of others.... rockets cause tanks to come in.... I'm not suggesting tanks coming in isn't traumatic, on the contrary.... but when your fathers are shooting rockets into cities at random it affects everyone... cause everyone in the city being hit knows, had they been there at that point in time, the shooter would've celebrated at their death (regardless of who it was, man woman child).... when the tanks come in they aren't happy with getting just anyone they get.... they're specifically intent on getting certain people... the people firing rockets... the people hiding the people firing rockets.... the people supplying the people with rockets.... also any supply caches of rockets to take out of the hands of those who are irresponsible with them.... that is war... it sucks, but the ones continuing the war are the ones who refuse to stop waging the war.... hamas actively pursues war... even war which they know will get many of their people killed... Israel pursues peace, peace that will stop their people from experiencing stuff like in this article. If Mexico caused this sort of situation in el paso for instance, would we be happy if our government just did nothing to stop the rockets being fired?? No, if Mexico won't stop it, then we'll stop it for them.... [ul]the firing of a rocket into a civilian center is not only an act of war, but also an international war crime.[/ul] and hamas does it all day long, but everyone wants to say Israel's the bad guy. I mean it's completely random killing, like the dc sniper, just sitting there popping people off who they have no vendetta against except that they are of a particular nationality. If that was Israel's intent, they would just nuke gaza.... or perhaps also it could be said if *hamas* were to obtain nuclear weapons they wouldn't hesitate to randomly kill everyone in the city all at once.

"The right to purchase power and water and goods is not and should not be "concession" or a "kindness," it's a right" If that's actually the case then I guess I should be able to sue IPL and Indianapolis Water for failing to give me my *right* to power water and goods. I mean I understand it makes everything seem better to claim it as a right... but some things are *not* rights... if electricity water or say natural gas (the three utilities we in America take for granted) were *rights* then that means if I steal copper used to supply my house with electricity the electric company could *not* refuse to give me power.... which they can.... and do.... instead they would be forced to replace said wire and turn back on my power... same could be said with water... if I'm tampering with their system of delivering water to my house (and many other people's houses) they have the right to cut me off.... a right they couldn't have if it was a *right* to water, electricity, etc.... as you put it.... the seller has no obligation to sell to everyone who wants it, regardless of how necessary a thing it is.... now that said, it can't be refused on the basis of race, religion, sexual orientation, etc.... but that's not why it's refused... it's refused because the government of Gaza (Hamas) fails to safeguard Israeli interests by stopping rocket fire.... if the Gov't of Indiana failed to stop our citizens from pummeling nearby Chicago with rockets, and they chose to cut off any services they supplied to Indiana until Indiana can honor past agreements (which includes a ceasefire) that would be their right... or do you think that some person in Chicago who works at some plant that supplies Indiana with something should *HAVE* to continue supplying Indiana with that thing regardless of whether Indiana stops firing rockets at them?? It doesn't make sense to do so... and if I were from Chicago and they told me to keep producing for Indiana (while rockets are landing near my home fired from Indiana) I'd quit and probably move to Montana or something.... oh wait, but then who will produce Indiana it's supplies.... after all it's their *right* maybe I should be FORCED to keep working... what about my rights?? That's the case and point... what about my rights? or, take it back to Israel/Gaza... what about Israel's rights? You have claimed it's Israel's responsibility to care for Gaza... but it's actually untrue.... Governments are not made to take care of others, but only to take care of citizens of that particular country. The US Gov't is responsible for taking care of US citizens... not Mexican citizens, not Portugese citizens... US citizens.... Mexican Gov't is responsible for taking care of Mexican citizens, not US citizens.... the same applies to Israel. Furthermore, gov'ts are responsible for honoring past agreements. Hamas can't take power and just up and decide they no longer have to follow any ceasefire, and certainly if they DO claim that they can't simultaneously claim that Israel *must* follow their end of the bargain... it's one way or the other.... "There is no justification for causing the suffering and oppression of thousands of innocent civilians. None. Not even during war" This I would agree with, but the problem is you aim that phrase towards the wrong party. Hamas is the one who still insists they're at war... not Israel, if Israel was at war their enemy would be vanquished.... Hamas is the one causing suffering *and* oppression for thousands of innocent civilians (and I'm not even referring to Israelis like the ones living in Sderot, but of Gaza)... I've already pointed it out and you haven't denied it, nor responded whatsoever to the fact that HAMAS when elected started throwing opposition gazans off of buildings... killing their OWN PEOPLE, if they don't agree with them... THAT is oppression, by definition... Oppression such as that, followed by waging a constant war of attrition against a technologically superior enemy in effect CAUSES suffering of Gazans, from the bottom to the top, but especially for the bottom.... Furthermore, when killing political dissidents, Hamas frequently just claims that particular dissident was an Israeli "collaborator".... that causes Gazans to distrust Israel due only to false accusations (a violation of Torah). Distrust breeds all sorts of suffering.... particularly when for distrusting one, you trust someone else who is unworthy of trust, and in fact is the cause of your distrust to begin with..... Almost like an abusive boyfriend who while he beats the girl also convinces her that he's far nicer than any other guy is gonna be (point to any negative news examples of worse treatment of women, for instances serial rapists or kidnappers). Hamas is the (chosen) boyfriend, the people of Gaza are the girlfriend.... what you want to join Fatah with all the ZIONISTS!?!?! NEVER! then throw you off the building so all the others know not to question... Gaza needs to reconsider their choice of mate.... maybe there are worse guys out there, but that doesn't mean you have to deal with crap like that... Furthermore, for people as observers of this relationship to IGNORE what is happening in the relationship and instead focus on the points the boyfriend made.... I mean there are worse guys aren't there... "oh tell me about it, I was with this guy and he stopped the car and made me walk home" or whatever *rolls eyes* *that* is what causes people to stay in abusive relationships.... and that is what causes Hamas to maintain their power, by terror over their own people.... "Jesus would not approve of it." Would he approve of the relationship between Hamas and Gaza? cause if not, (and if he cared about the people of Gaza) then it would seem relevant to let Gaza know that it's not ok to continue like that.... course if he didn't care about the people of Gaza then I suppose he could just keep giving them power as if nothing's wrong.... maybe that's what Jesus would do... pretend nothing's wrong even when it's obvious.... just like he did when he came into the Temple and saw people selling doves and whatever else in the Temple, just let them go on their merry way as if nothing was wrong.... oh wait, that's not what happened... he cast out the ones desecrating his Father's house... so even if it doesn't make everyone happy, it's important to find correction rather than ignore the problem.... I mean interpret it for yourself, don't take my word for it.... but I believe it has been said something like "all it takes for evil to win is for good men to do nothing".... Perhaps Israel should do nothing when faced with the evil of random murder of their civilians by rocket fire/suicide bomber.... that'll show the perpetrators of evil.... just plug your ears like "I can't hear you... .... and so long as you don't hit me (or even if you do) we'll pretend it isn't happening" I certainly hope the messiah isn't so calloused....