[quote]Hi Sara, I'll send you more about the Sabbath later when I've finished studying it myself! So far I've only collated the verses (which gave me a bit of a preview), but haven't studied them in detail. With predestinationists... There are dozens and dozens of verses which they will put a predestination spin on and ask you to explain away. They are indeed all explainable in terms of freewill, but then they will come up with dozens more verses which are ambiguous in isolation, and one can spend forever on more and more verses they drag up. Therefore, if your convincing friends are keen to discuss it, what I suggest we do is that * they read appendix 8.3 of my article carefully; * they try to "explain away" the key freewill verses in s 8.3 (eg by putting coloured text inserts within my article or an extract from it); and, if they like, * they can put to me their favourite 20 or so best and most convincing predestination passages which they feel cannot possibly be explained any other way, and I'll see if I can explain how they fit with predestination. Note the limit of about 20! not a list of 200 references like that website. And they must be from Jesus' teaching, not Paul's. We all know Paul taught predestination; but Jesus didn't. Note also that the fact that Jesus referred to events recorded in a historical book doesn't mean he agreed with everything in that book. See my revised s 7 (conclusions) in my main article. Love & blessings from Graham[/quote] ...I was going to post the relevant sections here.. but after I pointed out some stuff he's rewritten it.. and its now REALLY long. Soo, if anyone wants to take Graham up on that, I'm happy to email you the article. It's not just about predestination, it's about.. uh.. everything.