What would you do if your sister was raped, the cops dropped the case, and you knew who did it?

I can't put into clean enough words what I would do. I'd have to repent afterward.

I'll plead the fifth right now...

He'd not be a repeat offender.

To put it bluntly...he'll have won a one-way ticket to hell. He'll take his punishment and then I shall take mine.

i would call my cousins

"i would call my cousins" I'll respond to this response... so you took the *higher* path and decided not to act in yourself but rather to have your cousins do the unmentionables that others said they'd do on their own. Now, your cousins thought they were really smart in planning a premeditated murder motivated by revenge and thought they covered all their bases... but there's this one cop who found the evidence to lock your cousins away for a long time. Granted, they accomplished their purpose of murder, so the guy who raped your sister is dead... but now your cousins are gonna be in jail while their kids grow up, they're gonna be in jail while their kids graduate high school... by the time your cousins are released from jail they will never be what they were before you called them again... and everything they had before receiving your call and acting (in the exact manner you intended them to act when you called them) is now gone.... can you live with yourself for the fate you have given your cousins? Or will you instead deny responsibility for what you inspired your cousins to do? I mean to all the bravado guys on here saying they'd do it themselves.... they'd do it themselves and suffer for their actions on their own accord..... you however have put someone else in the position to suffer for your own unwillingness to either A. forgive, or B. fight your own battles.... 15-20 years later your cousins are released from prison very different people... perhaps they are now hard-core addicted to drugs due to the stress involved with living with their actions... perhaps being drug addicts just released from jail they can't find work... their entire lives are not only ruined, but incapable of being put back in any semblance of what they used to consider *living*. How do you feel now? can you live with your actions? Can you ignore the plight your cousins are going through when they come to you daily or weekly trying to bum money for drugs because their minds are so messed up due to the fact they murdered someone? Maybe for a little while you help them then one day you cut them off thinking they don't need drugs.... so they wind up robbing someone..... it's all speculation, but it's certainly not an improbable scenario to follow your response of calling your cousins. ... furthermore what was it the messiah said... forgive us our trespasses *as* we forgive those who trespass against us.... so to the guy who said essentially "I'd kill him, but then of course I'd forgive him".... then taking the above proclamation you will be equally forgiven for your trespasses... ie be killed in vengence for your actions, *then* be forgiven, as this is how you have forgiven those who trespass against you (er... your sister). "Actions should be taken to keep the attacker from presenting a threat to others. " This is in my opinion the most valid argument made on this thread thus far. "And of course it's easy to say we should just forgive the guy." If it's so easy to say then why is it no one on this christian forums as of yet has said it? Apparently it's not as easy as it looks... particularly when you consider the people around you aren't willing to forgive them... if we took this forum as an example of how the family's reactions might differ, then you have one guy calling his cousins inciting people to take action against him, several others up in arms ready to take action against him themselves and one guy sitting here saying "really? no one thinks forgiveness is an option?" who was probably immediately excluded from any future conversations/plan-making sessions for revenge. End result, the only one who remains innocent is this one guy who was immediately excluded.... who kept himself from vengeful thoughts (though was unable to keep his family from vengeful thoughts or actions). The cousins for instance would've remained innocent had they not been brought in on something that didn't involve them and inspired to hate which leads to vengeful thoughts, which leads to vengeful actions.... when we began this scenario only the one guy was guilty... now look around! In God's eyes the guy has already been charged with his crime before any of you third parties were aware of it. Police wouldn't drop the charges if they had a case.... so they didn't have a case, thus no legal means of confirming guilt. Now many people are plotting against this individual, working *against* the law in effect, all while judging another for allegedly breaking the law.... just wait til word gets out to the police and their family that a group of vigilantes has been caught breaking the law, with the easy to spot motive of revenge giving them away... wonder what their punishment will be (oooh let's all gossip about what we would do if some vigilantes did that to my son/brother/father/cousin)... kinda like Bob Marley says "the road of life is rocky, and you may stumble too, so while you point your finger, someone else is judging you.... judge not.... before you judge yourself.." "I don't think that necessarily gets him off the hook though; his actions still have consequences -- and unless his life is transformed, there's no reason why the rapist wouldn't attack another girl again." So then by this statement one who sins can be automatically presumed to sin again? ie one who steals will steal again, one who worships another god before Yah will do it again, one who murders will murder again (uh oh cousins they're thinking that about you), one who forgets or fails to keep the sabbath will do so again, one who fornicates will do it again. Unless his life is transformed. Hmm, but how does a mere mortal whose life is also constantly going through transformation know whether another's life has been transformed? Perhaps we should leave it up to the one who can see into people's hearts.... cause if you cling to vengeful thoughts you will assume his life hasn't been transformed, if you cling to the notion of forgiveness then you will assume his life *has* been transformed, whether or not it actually has... but either way you're making assumptions that only God can validate or invalidate. " QUOTE: From a biblical perspective, what's wrong with castration? :) Well I mean Simeon and Levi killed an entire village of males for one of their men raping his sister, and that's after tricking all the males into being circumcised first. So based on that precedent castration would be mercy. " It could also be said that when a person steals his hand should be cut off.......... however as part of christian society we abhor such sentiment, it's contrary to what we believe..... Islam offers a religion full of vengence for any of you who are interested.... just putting it out there. They also stone adulterers.... .... but what was it the messiah said when an adulterer was brought before him to be stoned? "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"... .... takers? anyone? without sin? maybe call your sin-free cousins? if you base mercy upon precedent like that (instead of say Moses who was shunned not celebrated by his own people for killing an egyptian who oppressed his people and then later, by the mercy of Yah, returned to lead his people out of oppression), then I'd hate to see what you consider vengence... perhaps it's not vengence unless you tie them up, cut off all their limbs, slit their throat and then urinate on their grave.... anything less is charitable. But if you consider castration mercy, then may God have mercy upon you (ouch).... .... good luck with that... "can you honestly say, "I'd just forgive him."" I think the real question is is it up to you to forgive him or not? It seems in raping your sister it was your sister not you who was trespassed against. Also, by virtue of Torah it was a trespass against the covenant, ie trespass between the guy and your sister and a trespass between the guy and God.... If your sister was married then I suppose her husband could also have a claim in having been trespassed against. Thus it is primarily up to the sister to forgive or not to forgive (in this world) and up to God to forgive or not to forgive (in the world above). God can make his judgements without your input.... As her brother will you encourage her to have vengeful thoughts or to forgive? That is your place in (my reading of) the scenario. If you encourage her to vengeful thoughts that one day leave her (or someone who acted in her place) in jail, then you bear responsibility for that influence.... perhaps your family members wouldn't accuse you for such a thing, but God holds you to a higher standard than your family does, believe it or not kiddos. He expects you to do unto others as you would have them do unto you... If you would urge your sister to vengeful thoughts, that is like saying you would want someone to urge you to vengeful thoughts (ie tempt you to not be merciful when someone has trespassed against you). Basically God wants us to be like Him.... so what's God like? "Psa 103:8 The LORD is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy. Psa 103:9 He will not always chide: neither will he keep his anger for ever. Psa 103:10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities. Psa 103:11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him. Psa 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us. Psa 103:13 Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him." I guess time will tell if Christians are bold enough to follow in His footsteps.... it's give and take... if you can't forgive then you shouldn't expect to be forgiven. If you don't believe this guy can be forgiven then what exactly makes you so sure that you can be? The bible makes clear that those who transgress can return to righteousness... that the slaves can be freed. It's easy to point at another's transgressions, but it's wiser to look for your own and correct them.

So... if your sister was raped you'd do absolutely nothing? And yes, without Christ a sinner will sin again.

"So... if your sister was raped you'd do absolutely nothing? And yes, without Christ a sinner will sin again. " Who said anything about absolutely nothing? I put it pretty clearly I thought, you can either A. encourage your sister (or cousin or whoever else, even the whole town) to be vengeful and despite the fact that the cops dropped the case (which generally happens if there is not enough evidence to get a conviction), encourage vigilante justice to be done (which makes you share in the responsibility for whatever actions the vigilantes do). Or B. encourage your sister to forgive and move on with her life. Which behavior is more becoming of a Christian? Which behavior is HEALTHIER for your sister (who you apparently care so much about)? Without Christ a sinner will sin again, so how will you show this sinner Christ? Vengence or forgiveness? Vengence I don't believe to be a very good method of revealing Christ to a person..... perhaps you do? Or what if the person found Christ apart from you and lo and behold all the Christians on MyPraize are threatening him with violence all the same? Or is it your suggestion that one who raped your sister couldn't possibly find Christ? "Yes, defiant, it is indeed up to us to forgive the one who rapes our sister. Do you not realize the importance of family?" So what if the majority opinion on here prevails and unspeakable actions are taken against the one who raped your sister? Lets says the sister's family is family A, and the family of the person who raped the sister's family is family B. Now pretend you belong to family B, and it was your brother who raped the sister. Family A took unspeakable actions against your brother (which could by your point be worded to say family A took action against family B, as whether he raped her or not he is still your brother). Now your statement could be expressed "the family didn't physically do unspeakable action against you, but he is your brother... you mess with my family you mess with me. Period" Now we've got quite a conundrum, because in actuality one transgressed against another, but you say one who transgresses against your family transgresses against you. So you have now been transgressed against, and you did nothing whatsoever to deserve it. Your brother did perhaps, but not you.... and yet you have been transgressed against all the same. Now that same mentality of "let's get em!" could again prevail causing more transgressions all around due to the unwillingness of either party to forgive.... and in fact it will continue until such time as both parties are willing to forgive, which speaks testimony to the wisdom of the teachings of the messiah. The question again is only whether you acknowledge that wisdom or resist against it. Let me pose a separate question to you. Let's take it back to the first point where you belong to family A, your sister was raped and the cops dropped the charges. A hundred years later all of you are dead. Suppose you made it to heaven, and you're walking across a cloud one day and then you see him, that same guy who raped your sister, standing around up in heaven. Do you A. Go instantly to God and insist "that guy's a rapist! throw him into the lake of fire!" or do you B. forgive. Ponder upon your answer now.... which one would you do? someone's probably thinking "I'd like to say I'd forgive him, but I mean... it's my sister! so maybe I'd go to God just to make sure he's aware." Let's see what scripture says about this.... "Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. " It would appear the accuser of our brethren is cast down.... would you still like to go to God and accuse him?

Perhaps it's because of my lack of faith in the justice system lately, but I'm pretty sure that retaliation of some sort would ensue. I don't mean cutting him in half with my katana. But if I had the power to screw them out of a job later on, or voice my opinion that otherwise negatively effects them down the road, amen. Is that a sin? Yeah, still. But I'd hope to be that much in control of myself. If God can forgive a rapist, He can also forgive the brother. I think the other question is how we look at divine punishment, or the perceived lack thereof. What I mean is that, in the Old Testament, God would smite sinners near-instantaneously. That doesn't happen anymore. So if the Justice of Earth fails, too, then that can be really detrimental to our sense of right and wrong. And yes, the idea is that God will punish them in the afterlife if they don't repent. But until all involved are in the afterlife, that doesn't mean it's settled in this world. Of course, hatred and vengeance usually beget more "bloodshed" than good, so it's a vicious cycle, not to mention the legal ramifications of the possible actions. Forgiveness can be the better course, but rarely the easier one. And everyone knows Man will take the easiest route 9 times out of 10.