Different names, same person. Still, you know your stuff. I have to give you that.

I'm not simply calling your God a murderer. I have proof to back it up. Assuming of course you believe in your Holy texts. I will apologize for your taking offense, but it is what I believe. I believe the God you worship is a pretender, and that he is a tyrant. All of my religion do. Yes he created us, but he is not worthy of worship. He created us while withholding from us knowledge and wisdom. He judged the entirety of humanity on the actions of two people alone. He killed the firstborn of every family in Egypt, flooded the world, plagued an innocent man simply to prove a point. I see him as imperfect.

Katty, it may very well be the same person. But it is not as you see it. History is written by the victor, and that is exactly what happened. Lucifer lost his battle against God, and so was cast out of Heaven. He believed in giving us freedom and knowledge, but because it went against God's will, he was punished. Besides, let me ask you this: Why would this all-evil being punish those who committed mortal sins in life? Wouldn't he praise them?

Is it not hypocrisy for imperfect eyes to attack that which they deem imperfect? You desire that we turn away from our Creator because He both gives and takes, and you base it on the fact that you seem to believe that He is selfish in doing so. You say that without lucifer, there is no accomplishment, yet without God, there is no man at all. No life, no abundance, no hope for the ability to move on. You say he created us without knowledge, but forgot the rest of the title of the tree: The tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We were shielded from the ability to see the evil that exists. shielded from committing the evil ourselves- not from progress, not from happiness. What man chose to do was in the end a choice of man. Punishments and guidelines were made clear, and our imperfect minds cross it anyway from our own selfishness. I might point out that the deaths you speak of were warned against, and were able to be avoided based on man's decision to turn from the evil that we were exposed to. Yet, in every instance, man decided that he knew what was best- that God himself was wrong- that the creator wouldn't have the ability to both give AND take, though it was presented as clear. The testing of God does not come without punishment. Just as your parents didn't take disobedience very lightly as a child, God does not take lightly to his children doing the same.

Anyway rami, to answer your question, Lucifer is Latin for light-bearer, or Morning Star. This was a name given to the fallen angel known as Satan (or Beelzebub, or Belial, or even the old serpent) in reference to the New Testament.

And yet you claim that he has a plan for us all? If he is all-knowing and benevolent, why would he be surprised to find that Eve strayed from his path? Better still, if he GAVE US FREE WILL, why then would he punish us for using it?? And to counter that, without the apple we would not know good either. We would not know happiness. We would have lived the lives of robots. What we do affects him in no way. And if he truly loved us he would not KILL us. I don't know about you but my parents didn't KILL my brothers or myself for disobedience.

[b]niconu66 wrote:[/b] [quote]And yet you claim that he has a plan for us all? If he is all-knowing and benevolent, why would he be surprised to find that Eve strayed from his path? Better still, if he GAVE US FREE WILL, why then would he punish us for using it?? And to counter that, without the apple we would not know good either. We would not know happiness. We would have lived the lives of robots. What we do affects him in no way. And if he truly loved us he would not KILL us. I don't know about you but my parents didn't KILL my brothers or myself for disobedience.[/quote] 1. Ignorant troll is ignorant. 2. Trollers gonna troll. 3. Don't feed the troll.

Sit down and listen very closely, son. The reason I said you won't get very far here is that trolls never last long here. So what you need to do is just turn your computer off. Lay back in bed. And finish that episode of My Little Pony. Now be a good boy from now on. K? :D

Bro! I didn't know that you had a son, much less a Luciferian son... :P

Mr. Nugent, some thoughts: If you think the Most High (henceforth, "God" ) is malevolent, but is more powerful than Satan, then your rebellion is meaningless because you have no hope for success. If you think Satan is or has a chance to be more powerful than God (ie, he will "punish those who deserve punishment" ), then your argument about God allowing evil to exist is nullified. Because: 1) if Satan has more power than God and does not stop all the horrors of life then he is just as bad as you claim God is 2) if Satan has a chance of mounting a successful revolt against God, then God is not all-powerful. If that is the case, then you can't hold Him accountable for evil because it is possible that it is simply beyond His control to stop. In a case where God is all-powerful and malevolent and you choose to revolt out of your rejection of his standard of justice, it's consistent but a lost cause--and I feel as if a reality put in place by an evil deity would have far fewer joys than ours does. I mean, there are some rational philosophical arguments that could lead someone to agnosticism, but your argument isn't rational. Your posts imply you're just acting out of emotion.