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The Case for the Messiah

barry

16 year(s) ago

The thought that Isaiah 53 refers to a country is one of the weakest Solider. I dont wish to cover this alot myself. There is plenty of back and forth between jews and gentiles on this issue to study. I will ask: How can Israel be the subject of Isaiah 53 when it clearly stipulates that this servant must be righteous? According to the covenant at Sinai, the children of Israel were only righteous before G-d when every statute and commandment was observed. [b]Deuteronomy 6:24-25 states: "And the L-RD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the L-RD our G-d, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day. And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us."[/b] If they had done this they would have never lost there homeland. If you see this servant as the country Israel, the truth has still evaded you.

barry

16 year(s) ago

it is not about being a servant but being righteous

barry

16 year(s) ago

Funny thing, there was a time when the majority of Israel's Rabbi's believed Isaiah 53 was messianic. Here are a few quotes: [i]Babylonian Talmud: "The Messiah --what is his name?...The Rabbis say, The Leper Scholar, as it is said, `surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him a leper, smitten of God and afflicted...'" (Sanhedrin 98b) Midrash Ruth Rabbah: "Another explanation (of Ruth ii.14): -- He is speaking of king Messiah; `Come hither,' draw near to the throne; `and eat of the bread,' that is, the bread of the kingdom; `and dip thy morsel in the vinegar,' this refers to his chastisements, as it is said, `But he was wounded for our transgressions, bruised for our iniquities'" Targum Jonathan: "Behold my servant Messiah shall prosper; he shall be high and increase and be exceedingly strong..." Zohar: "`He was wounded for our transgressions,' etc....There is in the Garden of Eden a palace called the Palace of the Sons of Sickness; this palace the Messiah then enters, and summons every sickness, every pain, and every chastisement of Israel; they all come and rest upon him. And were it not that he had thus lightened them off Israel and taken them upon himself, there had been no man able to bear Israel's chastisements for the transgression of the law: and this is that which is written, `Surely our sicknesses he hath carried.'" Rabbi Moses Maimonides: "What is the manner of Messiah's advent....there shall rise up one of whom none have known before, and signs and wonders which they shall see performed by him will be the proofs of his true origin; for the Almighty, where he declares to us his mind upon this matter, says, `Behold a man whose name is the Branch, and he shall branch forth out of his place' (Zech. 6:12). And Isaiah speaks similarly of the time when he shall appear, without father or mother or family being known, He came up as a sucker before him, and as a root out of dry earth, etc....in the words of Isaiah, when describing the manner in which kings will harken to him, At him kings will shut their mouth; for that which had not been told them have they seen, and that which they had not heard they have perceived." (From the Letter to the South (Yemen), quoted in The Fifty-third Chapter of Isaiah According to the Jewish Interpreters, Ktav Publishing House, 1969, Volume 2, pages 374-5) Rabbi Mosheh Kohen Ibn Crispin: This rabbi described those who interpret Isaiah 53 as referring to Israel as those: "having forsaken the knowledge of our Teachers, and inclined after the `stubbornness of their own hearts,' and of their own opinion, I am pleased to interpret it, in accordance with the teaching of our Rabbis, of the King Messiah....This prophecy was delivered by Isaiah at the divine command for the purpose of making known to us something about the nature of the future Messiah, who is to come and deliver Israel, and his life from the day when he arrives at discretion until his advent as a redeemer, in order that if anyone should arise claiming to be himself the Messiah, we may reflect, and look to see whether we can observe in him any resemblance to the traits described here; if there is any such resemblance, then we may believe that he is the Messiah our righteousness; but if not, we cannot do so." (From his commentary on Isaiah, quoted in The Fifty-third Chapter of Isaiah According to the Jewish Interpreters, Ktav Publishing House, 1969, Volume 2, pages 99-114.)[/i] It is not untill these later days that it is not the norm.

barry

16 year(s) ago

A bit ironic that it was the living Torah that got you interested in the written Torah, no?

barry

16 year(s) ago

I will contend that "Believing Yeshua is Messiah" and having the Spirit of HeShem on you because of that is what got interested in the first place and without that would careless about Torah.

barry

16 year(s) ago

and everyday HaShem is restoring what once was.

barry

16 year(s) ago

[b]Deuteronomy 32:21 "They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not G-d; They have provoked Me to anger with their vanities: I will move them to jealousy with those who are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a senseless people." [/b] You do not provoke people with something they do not want. What Jews want is Torah. The Orthadox want to do it to please HaShem. The secular want it because it makes them Jewish. It is impossable to please G-d without His Spirit. When you accept Yeshua as Messiah you recieve the gift of His Spirit as a down payment of HaShem's promise. Gentiles have had this capability since the death of Yeshua but slowly the ememy has come in and twisted the instruction Of HaShem (Torah) into an object lesson and not something that applies to them (even though they claim His promise). Since Jerusalem has come under the control of Israel (1967) more gentiles have turned to Torah and have decided to live it, breath it and be it more than in any time in History. [b]"Whatever you say HaShem, we will do." [/b] Since that time more Jews have also come to Messiah than in any other time in history and this is because HaShem's word is coming true. He will take what was a non people, a senseless people, a people without Torah and use them to provoke His people and bring them back to Himself. How is it the Jews need Messiah since they have Torah? They need Messiah and his spirit to enable them to live Torah. There were those that did live HaShem's word but as a whole it was impossable. One sin in the camp made to whole camp guilty. HaShem has flipped the Table. Now as a whole the world can live Torah by the spirit given. For two thousand years Torah has been taught to christians, yet is was erroneously taught as not appling to them. HaShem is changing that. Christians like to say "[i]G-d is starting a new thing"[/i] No, He is not, He is restoring old things. He is restoring Torah. Let's look back through history to try to see who it is that HaShem has used to provoke His people. Atheists?.........No! They could careless about Torah or Israel. Buddasts?.........No! They could careless about Torah or Israel. Hindu's? .........No! They could careless about Torah or Israel. Mystics? .........No! They could careless about Torah or Israel. Muslims? .........No! They could careless about Torah or Israel. Christians? ......Yes! Whether anyone one likes it or not, Yeshua has been the mechinism for turning gentiles to Torah and Israel for Two thousand years. Does that make them perfect? No! They have dropped the ball just as Israel did. There is after all "nothing new under the sun"

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