On behalf of another party... [b]BrotherReed wrote:[/b] [quote]Even if it were true that the whole reasoning behind Victoria's Secret is the arousal of sexual desire (which it is not - it would appeal to men and I don't see too many men in Victoria's Secret buying underwear for their lady because of how the girls on the catalog looked), it still would not be sexually explicit and so would not satisfy the definition of pornography. There's no double standard. [/quote] "One of my close friends in high school ended up working for Victoria's Secret (lucky jerk ;P) and he'd tell you just like I will. Most of the people that shop there are women shopping there for stuff that their husband probably doesn't even like. They aren't buying it for their husband, they are buying it for themselves, to wear just so they can feel sexy and appealing. Nobody's ever going to see it but them. To say that's porn is just plain absurd."

[color=#0000FF][b]memnonkarana wrote:[/b] [quote]On behalf of another party..."One of my close friends in high school ended up working for Victoria's Secret (lucky jerk ;P) and he'd tell you just like I will. Most of the people that shop there are women shopping there for stuff that their husband probably doesn't even like. They aren't buying it for their husband, they are buying it for themselves, to wear just so they can feel sexy and appealing. Nobody's ever going to see it but them. To say that's porn is just plain absurd."[/quote] [/color] I think you're confusing my definintion of porn, which is based in Scripture, and confusing it with BrotherReed's definition of porn. He was the one insisting that any image that is meant to inspire lust is by definition pornographic. He wavered on that definition later in the discussion, but I was kind of playing Devil's advocate in order to show that his definition does not even match his own beliefs about Victoria Secret (for example). I, on the other hand, clearly laid out in the longer posts prior that the Biblical definition of porn has nothing to do with whether lust is being inspired or not...though lust may often be an outcome of porn. So, in other words...it doesn't matter to me whether lingerie is meant to inspire sexual desire or lust (when it comes to definining such images as porn). Although I think most people see the obvious on that one, as far as the overall purpose of lingerie. But, regardless, my defining such images as porn has nothing to do with whether these images are being used or are meant to inspire lust. I'm well aware that many women go there to get underwear. "UNDER WEAR"...as in, it should be worn "under" clothing and not out in public. I go into further detail about this in the "What Is & Is Not Modest" thread. I would also recommend you read my full previous posts in this thread as well. It seems like there was a misunderstanding.

[color=#800080] At this point, we really do need to have a heart check (so to speak). If we're not repenting (changing our mind & actions by receiving good seed into our heart and responding by faith) then this is going to be a very much uphill battle- assuming we all do that which we know is right. Here's why. When a person passively allows a bad seed into their heart, it doesn't just reproduce in a 1:1 ratio. Jesus said that it will bring forth fruit "some 100 fold, some 60 fold, and some 30 fold." [Matthew 13:8] Each bad fruit contains more seeds ("after its own kind" ) , which in turn a seared conscience will allow to fall back into the heart and bear more fruit. This is how "strongholds" are made. In due season, the fruit will have its own specific affects (depending on what the seed was) on your being (and life in general). Pretty soon you'll even find yourself doing that which you know (mind) not to do, but "out of your heart come the issues (fruit) of life (how you live)." [Proverbs 4:23] Depending on how much of a stronghold is built, it can be seemingly irresistible. This doesn't mean that we lack the ability to choose (free will). Our choice was made when we decided to start allowing these seeds to be sown in the first place- whether we knew better or not ("my people perish for a lack of knowledge" ) . [Hosea 4:6] This is how Satan tries to put us under bondage (slavery) again...one suggestion (thought, seed) at a time. Here's the best news: once we have knowledge of the truth, repent, and start taking captive every thought (seed) that is bad for us...then the Holy Spirit is able to remove them- from our mind. Also...the more we practice this, the more our conscience heals, the more sensitive we will be the next time this seed shows up. If you stop letting the seeds for weeds into your heart, the fruit of the old (corrupting) seeds that are in your heart will eventually die and you will begin to heal. On top of that, God's Spirit will be able to sanctify us (by chopping away and removing the bad fruit from our lives). If we start to take every unhealthy thought captive, through prayer, and guard our heart...He will cleanse, deliver, and purify us. He will take care of the rest. Depending on the type of bad seed we've been entertaining in (letting into) our heart, we will now be able to start experiencing deliverance from the effects of its fruit. So, going back to the topic at hand, if we (in our mind) would start guarding what is allowed to enter our heart (by taking captive every pornographic seed, through prayer, that tries to find its way past our conscience)...then the Holy Spirit would be able to heal our very soul, conscience, and heart. The end result would be that, to the same degree the bad fruit damaged us before, now we will be able to experience: purity, true (deep) marital intimacy, natural (Godly) sexual desires, true respect (awe) for our bodies, natural sensitivity to modesty, healthy emotions toward sensuality, and many more such blessings. In other words, we'll be able to experience marital intimacy and respect (holy honor, holy awe) for the body in a way that we would never have if we had not repented and allowed God to heal us in these areas. We may even find that the God-given ability to blush even returns to us again.[/color] __________ [i][Song of Solomon 4:10-12] "How fair is thy love, my sister, my wife! how much better is thy love than wine!"[/i] [url]http://spiritledintimacy.com[/url] [img size=252]http://www.mypraize.com/images/fbfiles/images/blush_best.jpg[/img]