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Before Abraham's Bosom...

MisterNathan

16 year(s) ago

Okay, so, we have the Bosom of Abraham. It's where the righteous of the time went when they died, prior to Jesus' death and resurrection. This was also called Paradise by Jesus when He was about to die on the cross. So, where did people go before there was a "bosom of Abraham"? Where did Adam and Noah and all those guys go?

Rachel721

16 year(s) ago

the Catholics had a simple answer to this: Pergatory. Everyone was placed into pergatory until it was time for the messiah. But, then, Jesus created the lake of fire and now there is no more pergatory (even though the Catholics used it to scare people into buying indulgences until latter days... and by that I mean a year ago). The Catholics were right in thinking that there was a pergatory, but wrong for thinking you got such and such years off by gazing at holy relics. There is no longer a pergatory, no longer a holding place now that jesus came and "set the captives free". The end :)

MaddMatt

16 year(s) ago

[b]MisterNathan wrote:[/b] [quote]Okay, so, we have the Bosom of Abraham. It's where the righteous of the time went when they died, prior to Jesus' death and resurrection. This was also called Paradise by Jesus when He was about to die on the cross. So, where did people go before there was a "bosom of Abraham"? Where did Adam and Noah and all those guys go?[/quote] Mister Nathan... you deserve an up front answer to your fantastic question. I do not know that I am qualified to respond, so I was hoping someone else would... But I will give it a shot. My problem is that I do not knoe Greek or Hebrew... So take what I say with speculation, and maybe research it a little bit. Before Abraham people died. So your question is, if I understand it, "What happened to the "righteous" that died before Abraham? Where did they go? There are several words used in Scripture to describe the afterlife. It was very common in Jewish beliefs that they were not "one in the same." The Jews believed that there was "Sheol" and "Gehenna." Sheol was thought to be a "resting" place where there was no torment, and there they would remain asleep. Gehenna was Hell, torture, torment etc... Now, this is all fine and dandy until the New Testament comes along, and then Sheol's meaning changes. Sheol in the new testament is used to describe the seplicur (sp) or the grave... the actual earthly tomb. In the Old Testement though, it was used as an actual "afterlife" we see this in Job, when he talks about going there"... we see it in Genesis: Jacob learns of Josephs death, and he says that he will "Go down" to sheol... He uses a definate direction, and is specific in the Hebrew that Sheol is an actual place he is traveling "to." Genesis 37: 35and all his sons and all his daughters rise to comfort him, and he refuseth to comfort himself, and saith, `For -- I go down mourning unto my son, to Sheol,' and his father weepeth for him. (Youngs Literal Translation) So... I do not know if this answers your question.. or gives you some direction to search. Honestly, I have never thouhgt about your question before, and I am only typing this as I think about it... so please feel free to correct me! -Matt

Gamester4

16 year(s) ago

i am still wondering what the Abraham's Bosom is? someone please tell me

MisterNathan

16 year(s) ago

Read Luke 16:22, 23 in KJV (some versions don't say it), and you can finish reading the story of the rich man and Lazarus, because it gives you just a little more information about the bosom of Abraham. Now, when Jesus was about to die on the cross, He was hangin' there between two thieves. One turned to Him and repented to Him. In response, Jesus said "This day I will be with you in paradise." Paradise was a place in/near hell where the "righteous" of the day could go, since grace had not yet entered the scene to make anyone truly righteous enough to enter heaven. Oh, and for clarification, I believe that Paradise and Abraham's Bosom were one and the same. In response to Matt, first of all, thank you. From what I understand (this is just what I understand that Jewish scholars say), there were those two places in hell, but Abraham's bosom was a separate place altogether. I'm not really sure how it all works, because I wasn't really thinking too much about it when I read it, but now I don't remember where I read it, so, yeah. And from what those same Jewish scholars were saying (and they CAN read Hebrew lol), you were right about Sheol and Gehenna. Actually, I thought it was the other way around, but it's been a while ;) .

MisterNathan

16 year(s) ago

I would also like to clarify that that is just my understanding of what Abraham's Bosom/Paradise is.

MaddMatt

16 year(s) ago

I should have expanded to say that it is typically believed that Abraham's Boosom was what the Old Tetament Jewish understanding of Sheol.

Chantillon

16 year(s) ago

[b]MisterNathan wrote:[/b] [quote]Okay, so, we have the Bosom of Abraham. It's where the righteous of the time went when they died, prior to Jesus' death and resurrection. This was also called Paradise by Jesus when He was about to die on the cross. So, where did people go before there was a "bosom of Abraham"? Where did Adam and Noah and all those guys go?[/quote] They were in Limbo LIMBUS PATRUM Though it can hardly be claimed, on the evidence of extant literature, that a definite and consistent belief in the limbus patrum of Christian tradition was universal among the Jews, it cannot on the other hand be denied that, more especially in the extra-canonical writings of the second or first centuries B.C., some such belief finds repeated expression; and New Testament references to the subject remove all doubt as to the current Jewish belief in the time of Christ Whatever name may be used in apocryphal Jewish literature to designate the abode of the departed just, the implication generally is that their condition is one of happiness, that it is temporary, and that it is to be replaced by a condition of final and permanent bliss when the Messianic Kingdom is established. In the New Testament, Christ refers by various names and figures to the place or state which Catholic tradition has agreed to call the limbus patrum. In Matthew 8:11, it is spoken of under the figure of a banquet "with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of Heaven" (cf. Luke 8:29; 14:15), and in Matthew 25:10 under the figure of a marriage feast to which the prudent virgins are admitted, while in the parable of Lazarus and Dives it is called "Abraham's bosom" (Luke 16:22) and in Christ's words to the penitent thief on Calvary the name paradise is used (Luke 23:43). St. Paul teaches (Ephesians 4:9) that before ascending into Heaven Christ "also descended first into the lower parts of the earth," and St. Peter still more explicitly teaches that "being put to death indeed, in the flesh, but enlivened in the spirit," Christ went and "preached to those souls that were in prison, which had been some time incredulous, when they waited for the patience of God in the days of Noah" (1 Peter 3:18-20). It is principally on the strength of these Scriptural texts, harmonized with the general doctrine of the Fall and Redemption of mankind, that Catholic tradition has defended the existence of the limbus patrum as a temporary state or place of happiness distinct from Purgatory. As a result of the Fall, Heaven was closed against men. Actual possession of the beatific vision was postponed, even for those already purified from sin, until the Redemption should have been historically completed by Christ's visible ascendancy into Heaven. Consequently, the just who had lived under the Old Dispensation, and who, either at death or after a course of purgatorial discipline, had attained the perfect holiness required for entrance into glory, were obliged to await the coming of the Incarnate Son of God and the full accomplishment of His visible earthly mission. Meanwhile they were "in prison," as St. Peter says; but, as Christ's own words to the penitent thief and in the parable of Lazarus clearly imply, their condition was one of happiness, notwithstanding the postponement of the higher bliss to which they looked forward. And this, substantially, is all that Catholic tradition teaches regarding the limbus patrum. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09256a.htm

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