I'm not sure if this is allowed....I got this off of dittytalk....there's a debate on whether Jesus was fully God and man or just fully man, this is a post a person that thinks he was just man. I want to know how you guys respond to this? Rebuttal: (1) Jesus did not have to be "God the Son" in order to perform miracles, signs and wonders. All true believers "will do" greater works and wonders than Jesus did. [John 14: 12] does not say that all believers 'might' or 'ought' or 'could' do greater works and wonders than Jesus did. The passage says "will do"! If you study up on the 9 spiritual gifts, you will find that every wonder that Jesus performed was either a result of faith on the part of the recipient or a manifestation of one of those 9 gifts. Every "born again" believer, of whom scripture names Jesus the first (Colossians 1: 19: "the firstborn from the dead"], another significant fact that excludes Him from being "God the Son", who has received the baptism of the Holy Ghost, can be used by the Holy Spirit to manifest those same gifts as He wills. Jesus promised, as recorded in [John 14: 12], that whoever believes in Him will do greater wonders than He himself did - because - He "goes to the Father" in heaven. [1 Corinthians 12:31 and 14:1] encourage every believer to earnestly desire the greater or higher gifts of the Spirit and the book of Acts is a record of their demonstration in the lives of select members of the 1st century Church. (2) As far as the matter of mankind "needing a god to die for us" is concerned, any man would have indeed fit the bill, at least in so far as his 'godhood' was concerned because [Psalm 82: 6] and [John 10: 34] declare that all men are 'gods'. If that were not true how then could the 'sons of God' have mated with human women or the Holy Spirit have fertilized Mary with His seed? In any event, [John 10:33-35] records: (32) "Jesus answered them, 'Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?' (33) "The Jews answered him,saying, 'For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy, and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God' (34) "Jesus answered them, 'Is it not written in your law, "I said, Ye are Gods"?' (35) "'If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; (36) "'Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, 'Thou blasphemest'; because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?" Jesus said that all men are gods and then reinforced the point by emphasizing that the scriptures, declaring the godhood of men, "cannot be broken" but He also distinguished the God nature of the Father from the god nature of man. Men may be gods but God the Father is not a man! And what is that distinction? Men are spirits with bodies. God the Father is "a spirit" and has no body and thus is not a man. Jesus does have a body, "in whom the whole fulness of deity (now) dwells" [Colossians 1: 9], and thus, cannot be "God the Son" rather than the son of God. (3) Jesus was tempted in every way like we are [Hebrews 4: 15]. The word 'temptation' cannot be applied to a being who cannot sin. It is precisely the potential to sin that defines the word and God the father has no potential to sin because,as [James 1:13] clearly declares, God the Father cannot be tempted with evil. Since the scriptures state repeatedly that Jesus was tempted with evil in every way, He could not possibly have been "God the Son" while on earth or now as He sits at God the Father's right hand in the throne room of Heaven. So in whatever sense we understand Jesus to have been a god while here on earth, it cannot be in the same sense as He "was God" when in the beginning He was "with God" [John 1] because the God with whom He was could not be tempted by evil. Much of the greatness of Jesus comes from His years of suffering and not yielding to the temptations that the devil inflicted upon Him. Any other point of view is disrespectful of Him! (4) No one is to be petitioning Jesus in Prayer! All requests by believers are to be made to God the Father in Jesus' name: [John 16: 23] declares that, upon the resurrection of Jesus, believers in Him will ask nothing of Him but, if we "ask anything of the Father, He will give it to (us) in the name of Jesus". [John 16: 24,26] records Jesus further clarifying the rules of prayer by telling all believers that, after His resurrection, we will ask the Father in His name and that He will leave the content of those prayers up to us because He will not be praying for us. He left the job of prayer up to us and gave us the power of attorney to use His name to make petitions of the

I think that person is missing the concept of being fully God and fully human. It was the human aspect of Jesus which would have been tempted. It was the God aspect which would have forgiven sins. And in case this was forgotten, God is quite capable of having multiple aspects (thus the Trinity). From this, we can go to John`1:1,14. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us...

1. that really doesnt matter when it comes to whether or not He was fully God or fully human... it does absolutely nothing to support or refute either idea 2. it wasnt that... if you look back into how sins were forgiven in those days, it was through the sacrifice of the most un-blemished lamb taht you could find.... but because of the fact that they still weren't flawless because they were of the world, it just wasnt enough.... there needed to be a perfect lamb to be the sacrifice for our sins and that could only be the Son of God 3. what does that have to do with Him not being God? Jesus was fully God AND fully human... therefore, He could be tempted, as a human, but He would never give in, as God 4. um... the Trinity? lol.... the verse specifically says that we are to pray in Jesus' name... i think the verse he gave just prroves the opposite of his point "He will give it to us in the name of Jesus" um.... isn't it kinda right there?

Post edited by: MisterNathan, at: 2006/10/07 23:52